Beaten while watering the flowers

This is sickening ...

It makes me wonder what exactly the man watering flowers said in order to cause another man to actually get out of his car and hit him. Not that anything he said could justify it.. but still!

I bet the man that punched him in sitting in jail re-thinking his actions. Something that seems like just a punch could really land you in a world of trouble.

Hopefully the victim had time to hose him before the other man laid down a punch!

I think the guy punched him because the guy watering the flowers slapped the girls in the head. I think the guy who through the punch was defending the girls.

It is too bad the guy died but sounds like a simple punch with an unlucky fall. I know this is taboo but the victim doesn't sound so innocent. Sounds like he was messing with the girls cursing at them and hitting them. Great he was watering flowers but it doesn't sound like he was a model citizen. Anyway....why didn't he just move the cones out of the way? He has not right to block traffic - does he? Futher...why couldn't he water at like 11a or 9p when traffic is gone....or be polite and when a car comes move out of the way then go back to watering until the next car comes. If there is so much traffic that is a pain for him then there is too much traffic to water at that time of the day - do it later. It is sad the guy died but it doesn't sound like was some innocent bystander, sounds like he could have moved his cones, walked away and came back later. Sad he died and sad some guy will go to jail. He may or may not be a good person but sounds like he was defending a woman which makes him sounds good...however the hole doo-rag thing makes me wonder how many saints I've seen wareing doo rags....

Remember this is a Rainier Valley community where violence is encouraged by adults, teenagers, and children. With the anger of Hip-Hop music, perceived racial victimization has created a generation of angry people of all colors and creeds. While I believe the person who killed him needs to go to jail for the rest of their lives, the larger problem of violence still exists.
Rage in cars, rage on the streets. Until this is dealt with in some fashion, this type of senseless violence will continue in the Rainier Valley. In a place where child gangs are commonplace, this was just waiting to happen.

Not too sure it is just a Rainier Valley problem when crime is Seattle this year has been high. You all need to get your crime under control.

"Hip-Hop Music" had nothing to do with this!! It's the lack of discipline in the households that lead to this! Noone taught them to obey their elders! The guy that did the hitting should've just moved the cones and let the girls gone thru not go as far as being violent! It's sad someone had to die by doing a good deed then turning the deed into something else. Be polite let them thru!

The man who was attacked and died squirted the girls with his garden hose when they got out of their car and moved the traffic cones.
Here is a man who is trying to do something positive in his neighborhood, who has the corutesy and forethought to put up traffic cones so drivers are aware of what he is doing, and he's killed for it! THere is NO EXCUSE for his death, and the young man who punched him was obviously brought up to believe that violence is acceptable.....anywhere and anytime.

Unless those girls had a medical emegency, they could have waited the few minutes. But no----and now a man's life has been taken from him. SHAME ON THEM, SHAME ON THE GUY WHO HIT HIM!!!!

There is an amazing lack of self-control in this society (and not just in Rainier Valley). More and more kids are brought up without discipline and without respect for other people and their rights. They're not taught to control their anger and to think before they act. Kids like these "grow up" to become like the "man" who committed this crime.

The man who committed this murder was not defending anyone. He made a choice, and it was a terrible one. I think the teenage girls that took matters into their own hands should be held to account as well, because they're the ones who caused the situation to escalate out of control.

I can think of so many ways the situation could have been resolved, without resulting in someone losing his life. It's absolutely senseless.

Things have to change in this society, or more people are going to die over stupid things like traffic cones.

I think the girls should be Held responbile to..I'm sure the guy that life was taken, knew when traffic slows down in that area, before going out and watering. Sounds to me these girls thought they would be Tough, and acted as though, their the true victims! They are the 1's that removed his cones, then got up in his face. Oh a little bit of Water Liked Killed Them, please?? Sounds to me the guy that hit the man is probably a friend of their's and are trying to get into a gang..All Four of them Should be held accountable..Sounds like gang activity to me..Hopefully the Seattle Police know who these girls are and Hold them Just as well Suspects as the Guy that did the Final Act.. Killing over petty Stuff!! Haven't heard any Remorse from any of the Girls, Now Have We??????

Everyone in this unfortunate incident should remember to pick one's battles carefully.

I think everyone has forgotten the facts here.
This old man cursed the girls for wanting him to move the cones. Then he proceeded to curse them, then went as far as to squirt them with the water hose. To make matters worse, he escalated the situation but physically assaulting the girls by shoving them and slapping one of them around.
This tree hugger initiated the rudeness, disrespect,and finally the violent acts.
It sounds like the guy in the other vehicle saw a guy beating a woman in the street and stepped up, like any man should.
His death appears to be an accident but resulted from his own bad choices in dealing with a confrontation.

Chad,
You appear oblivious to law.The girls escalated the incident by exiting their vehicle and getting up in the guys face.They ALWAYS had the option of calling SPD.A person is DEAD from their combined actions.They had multiple options other than getting out of their car.Whether it's 2nd or 3rd degree murder or homicide remains to be seen.The jury will be presented with a plethora of options those girls and the car driver had.In the end,rage and physical action sends you to prison.Hopefully you might not get out of your car the next rage opportunity.....

Additional for Chad:
Hopefully the man exited his car has no prior convictions. You should know certain definitions under the law. Unfortunately the girls/man always had the option to back up the car and exit another way, call the police, or simply wait:
From WikiPedia->>Provocation consists of the reasons for which one person kills another. "Adequate" or "reasonable" provocation is what makes the difference between voluntary manslaughter and murder. According to the book Criminal Law Today, “provocation is said to be adequate if it would cause a reasonable person to lose self-control” [1] For example, if a man were to come home and find his wife in bed with another man and kill both of them in a jealous rage, this might be considered adequate provocation and thus voluntary manslaughter. Provocation is no longer a recognised defence.

Thank you Tony for your input..I was so upset I couldn't think of everything I wanted to put down.. As you Said "There is and Was other Options"...I myself am a Victim of Voilent Crime, so was My ex B/f Who is also a Nam Vet..He to was knocked out and I found him laying in the Street, face 1st when I came to..I was also knocked out. I took a blow in the Face..My Nam B/f at the time was knocked out from behind..all Gang related here in Tacoma..Tired of the Gangs!!

In response to Tony:
Who has suggested gang related violence?
This man was witnessed assaulting a woman.
The woman exited her car to remove the cones.
I didnt hear about the flower guy calling police when the woman "got in his face".
He proceeded to shove and slap her after squirting her with the hose.
This man initiated violence according to the witness.

Additional for tony and jai:
What would be your response if the man in the car did instead call the police, giving the flower man time to knock the girl to the ground and crack her skull open causing her death?

I also found it a little disturbing that in the evening report on the incident, they left out the little detail about the guy from the other vehicle coming to the aid of the girl being beaten. It sounded like an obvious attempt to sway public opinion on this incident.

Chad I'm not trying to agrue with you.. Did you read the article itself?? Witness's state they Young Woman had gotten out of their vechicle first..2nd they are they ones yelling at him, and removing the cones. It doesn't take a rocket sciencist to figure it out you can go around a round about as long as there is no other on comming vechiles towards your vechicle, wonder what they Young women would have done if the City of Seattle had it Block'd off for whatever reason..The point here is a man's life was taken, over cones. These girls had gotten into his face also, before he slapped them, and or squirted them. The only reason I personally feel that it is Gang related it states the Rainier Valley is known for it's Gangs. They never gave a descrpition of the vechicle the "Young Women" were in either, so were they with this Guy??
I know a Nam Vet Does Not go out and Start fights becuase he's had a bad day!! They yes "sometimes cuss at you and do a funny trick", but never out to hurt anyone intentionly!! You need read more on this article get the facts and read about PTSD..Those 4 are lucky he Didn't Flash Back and Get the Can of Whoop *** out on them..

Chad I'm not trying to agrue with you.. Did you read the article itself?? Witness's state they Young Woman had gotten out of their vechicle first..2nd they are they ones yelling at him, and removing the cones. It doesn't take a rocket sciencist to figure it out you can go around a round about as long as there is no other on comming vechiles towards your vechicle, wonder what they Young women would have done if the City of Seattle had it Block'd off for whatever reason..The point here is a man's life was taken, over cones. These girls had gotten into his face also, before he slapped them, and or squirted them. The only reason I personally feel that it is Gang related it states the Rainier Valley is known for it's Gangs. They never gave a descrpition of the vechicle the "Young Women" were in either, so were they with this Guy??
I know a Nam Vet Does Not go out and Start fights becuase he's had a bad day!! They yes "sometimes cuss at you and do a funny trick", but never out to hurt anyone intentionly!! You need read more on this article get the facts and read about PTSD..Those 4 are lucky he Didn't Flash Back and Get the Can of Whoop *** out on them..

Jai, you are making alot of assumptions on this situation. You have no idea what someone would do in any situation whether they served in vietnam or not has nothing to do with it.
The fact is, this man has no right to redirect traffic so he can water the city flowers. He has no right to hose the woman with water, which is also assault, and he also shoved and slapped the woman. Who knows how far he would have taken it if he wasnt stopped by the other motorist.
Now we'll never know.
But as far as I can see the woman in the car broke no laws, the man watering city property broke several.
You say the woman escalated the situation by getting out of her car, but that is legal in the state of washington. Removing the illegaly placed cones isnt illegal. James just didnt like it. James responded by losing his temper, hosing the woman down with water, shoving her and slapping her around.
He obviously needed to be stopped. Its unfortunate that he died as a result of the fall, but making a case of murder is rediculous. If James was alive he would not be the Hero with the water hose, He'd be the woman beater with the water hose brought up on charges of impeding traffic and assault.

Chad,
It's obvious you have some serious damage over domestic violence to me. The man/women that got out of there cars will be convicted of manslaughter. It is clear to me you don't care or don't "get it". It's not okay to get out of your car and punch people. There is no validation as you've indicated here. This is NOT a black/white situation. It's people acting out, and in this situation, the people getting out of their car made this situation worse, aggravated homicide or aggravated assault. They will answer for their crimes, a man is dead. While you believe it is OKAY to kill someone, a jury/courts find it otherwise. I'm sorry that whatever happen in your life damaged you so completely, my biggest compassion goes out to you. I believe you are damaged, or even believe in your own rhetoric. And that's sad.....

This guy seems like a total asshole. He was old enough to know to NOT squirt a girl with a hose OR to shove/touch any woman for any reason. It seems like he deserved what he got and I don't feel sorry for him at all. Why couldn't he just move out of the way for the cars and continue watering after they cars passed? Instead he had to put cones in the road to redirect traffic? Seems to be a little too much. The girls got in an argument with him, but he chose to also escalate the situation by acting like he was 13, and shoving and squirting the girls, instead of acting like he is well over 60!!! Seriously, I feel bad for the guy who punched this asshole and will get in trouble for it. Not for the asshole.

Tony
You can be sad all you want that I dont " get it "
If "getting it" means I sit in my car like a coward and watch a man beat a woman down , I have no desire to " get it " or to be like you.
The man shouldnt of punched him, he should have taken him to the ground and made a citzens arrest instead. But you are probably against that too.

I don't think any of the people involved are innocent. It is very unfortunate that it resulted in death over something so silly. As stupid and immature as it was for the girls to get out of the car and get in his face, yelling doesn't constitute his acts of violence. Just because they yelled, that doesn't not justify any physical retaliation. How many times have our own parents told us to just "walk away?" If he had just stepped out of the street for a moment and let them pass, it probably would've ended it right there. Should the girls have waited a few minutes for him to finish? Yes, that would've have been the sensible thing to do. Getting out of the car and provoking him was stupid and unjustified. As for the man who drove up and gave him the fatal blow? If his intentions really were to defend the girls, he could've just gotten in between them and acted as a barrier. He could've held on to him to keep him from doing anything further. I doubt an old man would've been that hard to hold back. He didn't have to hit him like he did. This situation is just a classic example of how several people all made the wrong choices. Of how everyone thinks they should get exactly what they want, when they want it. And how everyone thinks that the first strategy to solving any problem is immediate anger and violence. I do not think the man deserved to die for his actions, and I hope the remaining people involved learned a lesson from all this. If people would just think rationally and show a little human decency before immediately flying off the handle, a lot of horrible situations like this would be avoided.

Tony...you're an idiot..anyway, no one asked what the law said. How stupid to look it up on Wiki? Get a life.
Jai...Sorry about your life, but not all vets are good, honest, nice or well-tempered people. I know many personally and some are good, some are bad. I work at the VA hospital...some are out for a fight just because they are human.

Now for this guy...Why does anyone think it is okay to delay others for their own reasons? Stopping to eat your food, dial your phone or read a map it doesn’t matter. Why do you have the right to delay others behind you? Who cares what these girls were going to (medical emergency or not) the fact is it is rude and selfish to think it is okay to delay traffic for your own reasons, and illegal. Anyway, that alone shows us the type of guy this Vet is. He was not being considerate or thinking of others. He wanted to water his flowers and decided all the cars could just wait until he was done. What a jerk! Then to spray them with water...he was CLEARLY looking for a fight. Seriously...think about it...if you spray someone with water do you think they are going to be happy with you? He thought he could get away with it and was aggressive with them...guess he was wrong. He deserved what he got. It was unlucky he died but he was looking for a fight and well...be careful what you wish for.

We should all learn to be polite and none of this would have happened. A lesson for us all. Mind your manners!!!

Think about it this way...the kids down your street play catch in the road. They put up cones and block the entire road so they can play catch....you live on a dead end street and they've set up the cones at the start of the street, you live at the end....what do you do? They spray you with water when you try to move the cones, do you just wait for their game to end? Would you be upset to wait 5-10 min while they play catch and you have to get home for whatever reason…maybe you have to pee, or just get dinner going or just want to sleep. Why is what you want less or more important than what anyone else wants?

What SHOULD have happened….

The guy watering the flowers sees a car coming, he stops watering, moves his cones and steps aside for the car to pass. Once the car passes he replaces the cones and resumes watering.

The guy watering STARTED the entire thing. The girls should have left their car for their own safety…they should have ran over his cones or just stolen them and tossed them and told the police they have no idea what the old bat is talking about.

The guy who threw the punch ENDED it but probably got more than he bargained for. The punch was a bit over the top but the watering guy DID physically slap the girls. The guy who threw the punch should get in trouble for over-reacting but too bad if he gets in a lot of trouble.

The guy watering didn’t deserve to die but he certainly deserved to get a punch in his face.

How did I ever guess that these girls, had to know this person, that hit the victim..Now the Truth is being Told, So far 1 girl Knew the Guy that hit the victim..
He's a Damn Good Samaratian, Now Isn't he?? Oh and So are those Innocent Girls!! Scroll up higher when I put in my 1st Comment..No Remorse of Course..
Yea and for "a" your dumb..Stupid is as Stupid Does, I don't believe you that you work for any VA!!

Jai
How does the girls knowing the man in the car change anything? You're suggesting he cant defend them if he knows them? I'm sure alot of people in that neiborhood know each other.
By the way, just to remind you, the girls were being victimized by "your beloved victim" when the other motorist came to their aid. You're never going to be able to get around that fact. Your arguement has no merit whatsoever.

It would appear that according to todays Seattle Times article that suspect in this case has a lengthy rap sheet including 9 prior convictions including 2 for felony assualts. He drove up a good 20 minutes after the fact and was clearly there for the express purpose of assaulting the elderly man. So those of you here who are trying to portray him as some kind of a white knight who swooped in to defend the two girls couldn't be more off base. There are apparently more than one video of the incident, all of which show the girls repeatedly coming after the victim in this case.

Chad, like I said before, I'm not here to argue w/ anyone. please read from CEB. I don't have to go back and re explain what happen'd to me and my ex. Until you have been a victim of a Violent Crime, don't try to persway my own thoughts here. I wish no harm to anyone, and it's just a very sad fact that for someone that has lived in a neighborhood for over 10yrs. and was a Good Person 2 everyone, his life was taken. And also the guy that did this was a b/f to 1 of the girls which the girls Denied Even knowing him " Quality Choice Super Hero"! I'm sure the girls, 1 of them call'd him on a Cellphone and thats when he showed up!! Mr. Tough Young Man...good choice! I think and I know when to call the Cops.If the girls had been hit
they should have call'd the cops then..Because they were ASSUALTED REMEMBER?Naw Don't call the Cops. we will call my B/F his "Tough" he has a Nice Rap Sheet on him. Wrong Choice Girls..I still say they Need to be held accountable also..They LIED TO THE LAW, which is Not Something that you Do. That IS Also Against the LAW! Chad I'm tired of your Mouth. Start Reading and Start Listening Better!!

"Chad" and "on a",

You've stood up for a group of liars and a murderer. The video is clear, and the murderer came back with intent. Whether you like what I say, you've been defending a murderer and liars, and the worse group of trash the Rainier Valley has to offer.

I encourage you both to act equally irrationally next time something similar happens. You're both damaged, and I find your arguments hilarious. I hope he gets lethal injection, and his children end up with worse trash than the girls and him combined. We've lost someone special over some people who have chips on their shoulder, and bolstered by racial anger and entitlement for killing. Neither is valid, and why Rainier Valley continues to be a pit.

I don't even think Barack Obama can deal with the level of violence entitlement you both have. Chris Rock is right....

I would like to thank all that do listen and or read on this blog, that have found, it quite interesting to show that we have a zero tolerlance to taking another human being's life over, such petty crap, and or to be serouisly injuried..I still remember my last thoughts, as my assialant hit me..I knew it was a guy, and my thoughts of my kids and grandbabies ran through my mind.. and everything went black...try having 20-30 ppl, beating you and if your w/ a loved 1 being attacked..it was no fun. and to this day we still don't know why we were the target..and No I don't live in Seattle...Never have. So thank you ppl who help me to this day to keep up my Faith!!

Funny Jai.....most people are not randomly beaten...for doing absolutly nothing. Even the guy watering the flowers provoked the attack if nontheless by simply not getting out of the way when asked to do so. Too bad you were beaten but uh...I am just assuming you weren't in church when that happened.

Tony...I have to agree with the one statement above...you're an idiot.

Not sure what your goal is here but most of your stuff isn't even read by others because you're just annoying to read and just want to argue with the ones that disagree with you. If someone disagrees with you it does not mean you are right. You sound like a real piece of work….let me guess…no college degree and a sensitive ego? Again from above....looking up on the wiki! I agree, get a life. The wiki doesn’t make you smart.

Jai...you are a real victim. Clearly you love being a victim. Let me guess...you live in a trailer or apartment building with a great deal of credit card debit and ....well, let me guess nothing in life is your fault. I am not sure how the girls or the attacker mitigate the fact that the guy watering the flowers was blocking the road....illegally. Not sure how the girls knowing the black guy means anything...I think the entire Puget Sound assumed they did know him. Again from above...the guy watering the flowers was not some innocent bystander...he caused the entire thing. Also from someone above...if the victim had just moved out of the way of traffic he'd still be alive, instead he wanted to be a jerk and got the fight he was looking for... though he didn't deserve to die, it was an unlucky fall--the guy was not an innocent victim. Do we feel sorry for the drug dealer that was stabbed? He too is a victim…right?

Reading (or skimming) through all these comments, wow. Different versions of the story, guesses and assumptions about what really happened, varying opinions about the players in the act, and a lot of name-calling thrown in for good measure. Some of these comments are a great example: animosity and anger and judgemental thoughts and punishing acts are entirely too common on this planet. NONE of it is necessary.

Violence should never be condoned.

That said, perhaps there are people who don't like the idea of traffic circles, or the general idea of further constricting traffic when the city does little to address congestion. Are people just getting really fed up with intentional congestion which they don't feel is necessary or appropriate? Didn't the guy who got killed request a traffic circle from the city on his own? Did he get consensus from the neighborhood that a traffic circle was appropriate or agreeable to others? Blocking the right of way is also questionable if you're not a city employee or a utility working on something on the street.

thats true dd..u are so right aren't you. we thought the same, both me and my x..well thats what we Had comming to us huh?? Go back to your church and I will stay at mine. I sure hope you don't do something that may get you jumped, for absoluty NOTHING!!
now look the Murderer had to bring in His family, A Minister, and an Attorney...oh god please help me now, I really messed up this Time! Even though I have a LONG RAP SHEET!!

Jai:
You'd better get some rest if you're tired of my mouth. My opionions on what happened were formed from the info that I had, as reported by witnesses at the time. All you have to contribute is that you were a victim and that everyone that served in vietnam is a hero. Its funny that your "boyfriend" Tony brought up Obama. I had figured you were both staff members of his campaign.
Final advice, have something to say next time you speak.

funny how u became "dd"...why don't you read from my july 11th, comment. seems to me your just in here to hide your own identity, and write about your side of the fence. sorry mines greener...and tony isn't my b/f..how would you know if it's a male or female? i'm 100% female, and my name can be used both ways..aka ~chad~ aka dd, aka, aka, aka..wonder how many times your lying has been postd in here..sorry chad is only a males name, by the way do u live in tenino? and if i remember right i think this involves a Nam Vet and a Murderer, and yet i have not used any name calling..are u racist?? stay off my turf. all tony and i have ever talk'd about was the law..until someone decided to start using it as if it were..not me Mr. aka whoever..and just becuase i was out having a smoke w/ my x, is being a biker any reason to get jump'd, why cause we had to be so many feet away from the door of the place we were at? did us looking like bikers scare them? so that they could call the street their own, and blindly jump us?? cause we were in their hood, so they think anyways..u have no clue, to your gang banging talk. oh now i am a bad person, cause i now made it clear i'm a BIKER..YEP been in the clubs myself, but never did we fight w/ other clubs, we know how to keep the peace!! by the way how old are u?? your very immature..stop lying would be a good start 4 u!!

Jai:
More assumptions eh? You guessed wrong, I'm not " DD " or any other alias name on this blog. You're posting is all over the place. I can hardly make head nor tails of it.
you're a biker? ok thanks for the info, hardly relevent.
Am I a racist? no... I dont remember making any racist comments other than not assuming guilt of a black man without the full facts. ( me being white).
I knew you're female because of the emotionally charged slant of all you're postings.
Oh and about you're "turf". I believe I'll go where I please.
Again Jai, you're attack has nothing to do with the situation with the flower guy.
Also, just because brown has a rap sheet doesnt mean he's running in a gang. They arent known for turning themselves in for crimes and they run in packs. They known to be more cowardly when they run solo.
By the way, its non of your business, but I'm 38 years old, and no I dont live in tenino. Since you bring of race, I'm Part German and part native American.

my last comment was to DD, then you came in here and thought I was talking to you..no I wasn't, so again, I'm just running my mouth???so to make it Clear this 1 is from early this morning to you..just like the other day DD's comment, I wrote to whomever that is..and Either way, I don't care if you read my first comment, anymore, the point is that someone anyone has been murder over petty stuff and it is very SAD!! Very SAD For all everyone. if none of us Cared why are we all in here with our own thoughts?? It doesn't matter who you are for or who your against..like i said it's is SAD!!

Jai: Ummmm, You actually named me and accused me of being DD as far as I can see. Do you even read your own postings? Anyway, have a nice life, I'm moving past this blog.

blah, blah, blah..feel sorry for chad now...he's leaving the blog, sniffles!!
you need to reread everything. thought i was done w/ your dumbass along time ago, but nope! your still going to come back, crackhead " Chad " must be a family member of your's since you had gotten all the right info, from the witness's now huh? yes i do reread mine, u have to dip _ _ _ _

Wow, I had to read the blog with 41 entries. Is this the comedy blog? This story has been hashed, rehashed, and digested quite a bit. I think its done, lol.
and and a special note to jai, I think we'll be sniffling most when you leave. I'm thinking of sending your entries to comedy central for the certifiably insane sketch lol.
Or better yet Physco Biker B---- on Wheels!
That could be your niche lol. :) just kidding...

But seriously, have another beer lol.

It seems we are missing that there were some women involved in the dispute. As a matter of fact these women involved should be charged as accomplices in murder. They didn't do anything to stop the man but continue to argue with the Veteran.

I feel so much happier now I undertansd all this. Thanks!

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